Prophetic Congress: Power to Make War

 

These passages are from Daniel and also the book of Revelation. Beginning first in Daniel chapter 9. Daniel chapter 9, verse 24 and then verses 26 to 27. We read,

Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Then He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation which is determined is poured out on the desolate.

Daniel chapter 11, verses 36 through Daniel chapter 12, verse 1.

Then the king shall do according to His own will. He shall exalt and magnify Himself above every god. He shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished. For what has been determined shall be done. He shall regard neither the god of His fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god. For He shall magnify Himself above them all. But in their place He shall honor a god of fortresses. And a god which His fathers did not know He shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. Thus He shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god which He shall acknowledge. He shall advance its glory and He shall cause them to rule over many and divide the land for gain.

At the time of the end the king of the south shall attack Him. And the king of the north shall come against Him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen and with many ships. And He shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. He shall also enter the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown. But these shall escape from His hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. He shall stretch out His hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver and over all the precious things of Egypt. Also the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall follow at His heels.

But news from the east and the north shall trouble Him. Therefore He shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many. And He shall plant the tents of His palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain. Yet He shall come to His end, and no one will help Him. At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book.

Turning over to Revelation chapter 8, Revelation chapter 8, verse 13 and chapter 9, verse 12.

And I looked, and I heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, ‘Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound.’

One woe is passed. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

Now chapter 11, verses 3 to 14.

And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy. And they have power over waters to turn them to blood and to strike the earth with all plagues as often as they desire.

Now when they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three and a half days and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

Now after three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. And great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, ‘Come up here.’ And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe was passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

Now chapter 12, verses 13 to 17.

Now when the dragon saw that He had been cast to the earth, He persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed out water out of His mouth like a flood after the woman, that He might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of His mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and He went to make war with the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Now over to chapter 16, verses 13 and 14.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. And they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew Armageddon.

Chapter 17, verse 9 through verse 13.

Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth and is of the seven and is going to perdition. And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet. But they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.

For God has put it in their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.

Now, lastly, Revelation chapter 19, verse 11 and then verses 19 to 21.

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on Him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.

And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in His presence by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped His image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Now I think that we have read a lot of Scripture. But the thought is to lay a foundation on which we can build as we come together to consider God’s word tonight.

Now in a moment we are going to take up an offering. And before we do, let me just say something about the format tonight. Zane is going to speak approximately twenty to thirty minutes. And then we are going to just open it up for questions and answers.

And He wanted to know how long He should take. And I said really it should be what you are comfortable with. If He feels comfortable going a half hour, another forty minutes, fine. You are arch. And since they have kept me busy all day, I am not going to keep you unduly tonight. You can count on that.

Our subject is prophecy. And at the end of last year I completed a manuscript for a book on the subject of prophecy. But with a great deal of diffidence. Because in my judgment prophecy is the hardest of all subjects to discuss and to teach.

And the reason for that is our embarrassment of riches. Because a vast amount of the Bible is prophetic. And one of the risks that you run in discussing and particularly in writing about prophecy is that you will leave some significant information or detail out of your construction. And your whole edifice could theoretically collapse because of something that you have overlooked.

So I am now racing toward the goal line of sixty years. And I guess if I am ever going to write a book on prophecy I should write it now. But with some diffidence. Because even though we are working through the manuscript, we pushed off publication a little bit. And the longer we have to look over it, the better.

And what we are doing tonight is going through the core of the material that we present in this prophetic manuscript. And I am going to be very eager to have your questions. Because very often the questions that you ask will surface some of the problems that I need to address. Or will alert me to places where I can be clearer.

At Art’s supper table on Saturday night I turned to him and I said, “Now some of the material I am going to present Sunday night is kind of non-traditional.” And he looked at me with perfect calmness and with not the least measure of surprise. And he assured me that that was what He more or less expected from me. So that is what is going to happen.

I think that my basic prophetic framework is fairly traditional in our circles. But you will hear some things that perhaps will strike you as a little different. And these are things I particularly invite your questions about.

No light on the subject. No, no, you need a PhD to figure that out.

I always wondered what a PhD would be useful for.

What I want to do in the first twenty or thirty minutes of our session tonight is just to run you through the prophetic events that lie ahead. Give you an overview of what we have presented in the manuscript. And then open it for questions.

Let us begin by talking about the seventieth week of Daniel. You are probably good. Okay.

Are you having trouble hearing me? To jerk me back if I get too far away?

Now we know that this is the time period that is basic to the prophetic scriptures. And we know that it will begin at the time of the rapture. Or that it will be preceded by the rapture.

Let me draw a two-pronged set of arrows here. It is possible, as far as I can see, that the rapture could occur just as the seventieth week is inaugurated. But it is equally possible, as far as I can see, that the rapture might occur somewhat ahead of the beginning of the seventieth week.

And I do not know of any way that we can resolve that question until the rapture occurs. So I think either of these is a possibility at whatever point the rapture takes place.

This is also in my very firm opinion the beginning of the day of the Lord. And in the passage that we considered in this morning’s meeting it seems obvious that the coming of the Lord for His own and the day of the Lord take place basically at the same time.

So if the rapture occurs at the beginning of the seventieth week, so the day of the Lord will occur at the beginning of the seventieth week. Or alternatively the day of the Lord could begin earlier than the seventieth week whenever the rapture occurs.

Now following the seventieth week of Daniel there is of course the millennial kingdom. And we learn from second Peter chapter 3 that the day of the Lord is to be viewed as a time period extending through the millennium. And does not terminate apparently until there are new heavens and new earth.

So we are dealing with two basic frameworks here which overlap. One, the seventieth week of Daniel followed by the millennial kingdom. Two, the day of the Lord beginning with the rapture and extending through the end of the millennial kingdom.

Now the first event of which we are aware in the seventieth week is the covenant about which we read in Daniel chapter 9 a few moments ago. There is a question about who is responsible for this covenant.

In the text as read by Art just moments ago we had the statement in Daniel 9:27. “He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. But in the middle of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.”

But it is equally possible that we could translate that expression “and they shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. And in the middle of the week they shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.”

Now our decision on which way the translation should go will be based on our decision as to what is referred to here in the preceding verse. Remember it refers to the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

And usually the He is understood as a reference back to the prince that shall come. And then the prince that shall come is understood as the man of sin. I have a serious problem with this. Because as far as I can tell from the book of Revelation the career of the man of sin is not seven years long but three and a half years long.

And it seems more natural to me that the reference of Daniel 9:27 is not to the prince that shall come but to the people of the prince that shall come. And then it is the people of the prince that shall come who will complete the covenant. And it is the people of the prince that shall come who will break the covenant.

The people of course is a reference to the people of the Roman Empire. And it is quite possible that the covenant therefore will be enacted by a western confederacy. Quite likely, it seems to me, by the ten kings of whom we read in Revelation 17 who give their power and authority ultimately to the beast.

So I am suggesting first of all that the seventieth week of Daniel is begun with some form of treaty between the western confederacy and the nation of Israel. Evidently this treaty gives to the nation of Israel the right to carry out religious rites on the temple mount. But when the middle of the week is reached those rights are breached. As the confederacy breaches its agreement with Israel in order, I think, to throw in their lot with the man of sin.

Now very important also, it seems to me, to the understanding of this time period are the two witnesses. And here I would like you to turn back to Revelation chapter 8, which was read moments ago.

In the story of the two witnesses that is recorded for us in Revelation 11 we learn that the two witnesses are killed after they have completed three and a half years of testimony. And the question we need to ask ourselves is in which half of the week do these two men operate?

It is often suggested that the two witnesses operate in the last three and a half years of Daniel’s seventieth week. I do not think that is a possible interpretation, however, for the simple reason that after their three and a half years are completed they lie in the streets of the city of Jerusalem for three and a half days. While their enemies triumph over them. While their enemies have what amounts to an unholy Christmas as they send gifts one to another because of the death of these two prophets.

That does not concord with what we read in Daniel 9:24. Because the seventy weeks are determined upon Israel to bring in everlasting righteousness, to fulfill vision and prophecy, to anoint the most holy. In other words God intends to complete His program with Israel during the seventieth week.

And I do not see any room whatsoever for the two witnesses to be dead and the beast and the world triumphing after the seventieth week is over. On the contrary everything fits perfectly if we assign the two witnesses to the first half of the week. And that is where I would like to put them.

It is then true that when they have finished their prophecy the man of sin is just beginning His career. And His first act apparently is to kill these two men in the streets of Jerusalem. And then no doubt immediately He goes right into the Jewish temple and He proclaims that He is God.

You remember that this is prophesied in second Thessalonians chapter 2. The son of perdition who opposes and exalts Himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped. So that He as God sits in the temple of God showing Himself that He is God.

It makes sense therefore that His career begins as the career of the two witnesses is ending. And then that the three and a half days are the first three and a half days of the last half of Daniel’s seventieth week.

But if we can establish that the two witnesses belong to the first three and a half years then we have some other interesting information that follows with that. Look at Revelation chapter 8 and verse 13, which Art read a moment ago.

And notice that the first four trumpets have been sounded. And then in verse 13 John looked and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven saying with a loud voice, “Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound.”

And then the trumpet of the fifth angel is sounded. The plague takes place. Notice verse 12. One woe is passed. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

Then the sixth trumpet is sounded. And the plague is described to the end of chapter 9. Then we have a vision of an angel in a book in chapter 10. And then in chapter 11 we have the story of the two witnesses.

Notice that we come down to the end of the story in verse 13 of chapter 11. In the same hour there was a great earthquake and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe is passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

There is one more trumpet to sound. Notice the way in which the reference to the woes sandwiches this material. So that everything that precedes the sounding of the third woe is either contemporaneous with or prior to the career of the two witnesses.

In other words during the days of the two witnesses first of all we know from Revelation 11 itself that they have the power to shut up heaven that it might not rain during the days of their prophecy. A power in which they resemble Elijah. They have the power to smite the earth with every plague as often as they will. Which recalls the power of Moses, the ten plagues of Egypt.

But we also learn that trumpets one to six apparently precede. What did I do now? My PhD will not help me here.

I knew there was a reason why I never went for a PhD. Much too hard.

So trumpets one to six belong in the period to which also the two witnesses belong. And then we discover that the first half week is not the period of peace that it has sometimes been suggested as being.

And as a matter of fact if you will look back at chapter 9 and verse 18 you will notice that under the sixth trumpet we read, “By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.” A third of the world’s population is destroyed under this very devastating plague. Not to mention the number of people that must have been killed by one way or another by the other plagues.

So that the first three and a half years of this period are a devastating period of divine wrath and judgment. Needless to say the world will be in enormous turmoil. And the world will be looking obviously for a leader to lead them out of the woods.

And it is at this time, it seems to me, taking all the scriptures into account, that the man of sin appears.

Now in Daniel chapter 11 we read about a king of the north starting in verse 36. Let me explain that in Daniel chapter 11 we have really a series of historical what now are historical facts fulfilled. But at the time of the writing they were prophecies about the interplay, the political interaction and the wars between the king of the north and the king of the south.

The king of the north at that time, the king of the north referred to is the ruler of the so-called Seleucid Empire. One of the regions into which Alexander the Great’s conquests were divided. And the territory of the king of the north covered roughly what is now Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq.

So the kings of the north who are mentioned in Daniel 11 come from that region. The great prototype of the man of sin also came from that region. The famous Antiochus Epiphanes who desecrated the temple in His days as well.

The king of the south is the king of Egypt. Now at Daniel 11:36 we come to the time of the end. And the man who is described there is a man who opposes Himself above all forms of worship and exalts Himself. And this of course is exactly the terminology the apostle Paul uses of the man of sin in second Thessalonians chapter 2.

We are told in Daniel 11 that He does not regard the god of His fathers nor the desire of women. If He is indeed a king of the north ruling in the area that I have mentioned the chances are very good that He is an Arab. Since that region is now populated by Arabs.

Do I need to tell you that it is quite conceivable for kings of the north to arise with great military power who do not like Israel? We have just had the example of Saddam Hussein. I do not think this man is Saddam Hussein. But He belongs to that general region up there.

If He does not regard the god of His fathers the god of His fathers would be Muhammad, would be Allah. He would be a Muslim and therefore He would be a renegade from the Muslim faith. If He does not regard the desire of women two possibilities exist. One that He is homosexual or the other that He is an ascetic who does not engage in marriage or in the marital relationships.

We are reminded if I had to take a guess I will guess the latter option. It is a guess. Until this man appears we will not know exactly which of these two things applies to Him.

But we are reminded that in second Timothy we are told that the doctrine of demons is to abstain from marriage and from meats which God has created that they might be received with thanksgiving. So my guess is that He is a Muslim apostate, an ascetic and a mystic. Because we also learn from Daniel 11 that He has a god of His own that He worships. A god which His fathers did not know. A god that He worships by granting to Him very expensive gifts, jewelry, gold, silver, precious stones.

This, it seems to me, can only be Satan. And of course in the book of Revelation we read that the beast draws His power and authority from the dragon. Like we have in the book of Revelation a triumvirate: the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.

Here is the man who will finally get the kingdoms that Satan offered to our Lord Jesus Christ. You remember that if Jesus was willing to fall down and worship Him He would give Him all the kingdoms of the world. This was not a lie. He said, “They are given to Me and whomever I will I give them. If therefore you will fall down and worship Me all shall be thine.”

But Jesus of course refused. But here is a man who apparently will accept the offer. He will worship Satan and He will get all the kingdoms of the world. He will become a world ruler.

What Satan of course did not tell our Lord was that though He had the power to give them He did not have the power to allow the man who received them to keep them. And it is for a brief three and a half years that this man becomes a world ruler.

Now based on Daniel 11 one would say that toward the end of the first three and a half years Egypt launches an attack on the king of the north. That is very clear that Egypt attacks Him. He is not at this point a world ruler. He is a northern ruler. He is militarily powerful.

And it may be that Egypt is launching a preemptive strike of some kind because of His growing power. In return or in reply the king of the north launches a very vigorous invasion of Egypt, chariots, horsemen, ships. And He travels through the land of Palestine. His forces travel through the land of Palestine.

Daniel 11 shows us He is victorious over Egypt and even extends His grasp to Libya to the west and Ethiopia to the south. So He becomes a very powerful Middle Eastern figure.

If we think in terms of the situation as we know it today in the Middle East probably the strongest power in the Middle East right now is Egypt next to which is Syria to the north. And under this man perhaps the whole area of Syria, Lebanon and Iraq will be united. And Egypt and the northern king will be at loggerheads as they have been through history. And there will be a conflict in which the king of the north is victorious.

But now while He is down in Egypt He hears tidings out of the north and out of the east. And of course northeast of Him from the standpoint of Egypt would be Jerusalem. What does He hear? We do not know exactly.

Two possibilities exist. It may be that He hears something about the ministry of the two witnesses that causes Him to go back up to Jerusalem. It seems to me somewhat more likely, however, that inasmuch as His armies have passed over the land of Palestine the Israeli government is fearful of this man. And that the Israeli government may invoke its treaty with the western powers. And maybe the western powers have begun to send troops to Israel to back up Israel and to protect them from the intrusions of the king of the north.

In any case the king of the north moves back up. And let me ask you to turn back to Daniel 11 for a moment just to see the text one more time. Daniel 11:44. “But news from the east and the north shall trouble Him. Therefore He shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many. And He shall plant the tents of His palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain.”

It is probable that we have a situation like this. Here is Jerusalem and right up in this area is Mount Zion. On this side we have the Dead Sea and on this side we have the Mediterranean Sea.

Now His tabernacle we are told is planted between the two seas somewhere between the two seas. And the Hebrew text I think can be read as meaning toward or facing the holy mountain. So we can probably localize His tent, His encampment somewhat to the northeast of Jerusalem.

This might very well put Him in the Kidron, the upper part of the Kidron Valley and at the foot of the Mount of Olives. He plants His tent there. And then the author of Daniel tells us, “Yet He shall come to His end, and no one will help Him.” And then begins His statement in 12:1 that at this time Michael will stand up.

There shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation. In other words the arrival of this man and His encampment outside of Jerusalem signals the beginning of the time of severe trouble, the great tribulation period.

So this event, it seems to me, belongs right here. The king of the north camps. I was very much surprised as I was doing the manuscript of this book to make a discovery which I had not really made before. Asking you this question: What cities is the man of sin, the beast associated with in the New Testament or in the Old Testament?

The answer to this apparently is no city at all except the city of Jerusalem. There is nothing to connect this man with Rome, with the city of Rome which is apparently destroyed during His reign. There is nothing to connect Him with rebuilt Babylon though I think Babylon will be rebuilt.

But His only connection so far as the revelation of scripture are concerned are with Jerusalem. Where is He therefore during the three and a half years of the last half of the seventieth week? My suggestion is right here that He never moves from that spot. And that He is there as the armies of the world are assembling to fight the battle of Armageddon. And that He rules the world from His tent palace.

You notice what it said there? He shall plant the tents of His palace there.

Now at this point it seems to me that He enters into an agreement with the western confederacy or with the ten kings of whom we are told that they give their power and authority to the beast. Assuming that they are indeed a western confederacy and assuming that He has now extended His power over a great deal of the Middle East the union between the West and the Middle East will reconstitute the old Roman Empire on somewhat the same scope as it existed in the days of the Bible.

In other words the Mediterranean basin. But precisely because this region will be the center of world commerce and technology and oil this man will then become the de facto ruler of the world. No one will be able to oppose Him.

And when the ten kings have cast in their lot with Him this man becomes in effect the world ruler. Now at this point He enters the city of Jerusalem, kills the two witnesses, enters the temple and declares Himself to be God. And He picks up a henchman, the false prophet who is the man that I think we ought to identify as the antichrist.

He is the religious leader who assists the man of sin in governing the world. Now please understand that as He comes to power He comes to power over a world that has been devastated by plagues in which the population of the world has been reduced by an enormous amount. In which we may assume that the economics of the world are in severe dislocation.

So He wants to put it all back together again. And with the assistance of the false prophet He does so by means of the economic religious system which He institutes. And we are all familiar with this, the receiving of the mark.

We probably are now talking about the ultimate cashless society. Everybody will have some kind of a digital identification perhaps imprinted or implanted. And all buying and selling will be done by means of an extensive computer network probably. And no one will be able to access the system and therefore no one will be able to buy or sell who does not in fact take the mark of the beast.

Meanwhile, however, the remnant of the seed of Israel who have the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ are apparently spreading out all over the world to preach the gospel to the unsaved world. And so they are being hunted and hounded and pursued by the beast and His agents.

Now of course the man of sin will know perfectly well that as the three and a half years reach their conclusion the Lord Jesus Christ will be coming back with heavenly armies to establish His kingdom. Apparently what He does is to encourage the world to resist the return of Christ.

Perhaps He will articulate this in pseudo science fiction terms. That Jesus and by the way this has been suggested quite a few years ago a Soviet scientist suggested that Jesus was a spaceman who visited the earth a long time ago and left it. And perhaps the man of sin will have some kind of a scenario like that. That as a matter of fact Jesus is an alien who was here for a while and who was worshiped by the Jews mistakenly. And that He has promised really threatened to come back. That He is behind all of these awful plagues that have fallen on the world. But now is our chance as He leads His armies to earth the world armies must be assembled and they must wipe Him out.

Now it will not be an easy scenario to sell. And that is why we read from Revelation 16. Look at it again. Revelation 16:13. “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. These are spirits of demons, performing signs which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world to gather them to the battle of the great day of God Almighty.”

And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew Armageddon.

So three miracle working spirits which are sent out by Satan, by this world ruler and by the false prophet go out all over the world. And they appear before the kings of the world and they perform impressive miracles and persuade the kings to cast in their lot with the man of sin and to join in the worldwide movement to resist the coming of Jesus Christ.

I have never been able to understand why the battle of Armageddon is viewed as a battle between the forces of earth one against the other. In the light of what it seems to me is a very clear statement in Revelation 19. Turn to it again. We had it read a moment ago.

And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

The reason for the collection of the forces at the battle of Armageddon is simple. It is an effort to fight with Jesus and with His heavenly armies. In fact this battle is predicted also in Psalm 2. You remember why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth take counsel together against the Lord and against His anointed saying, “Let us cast their cords from us and burst their bonds asunder. Let us resist God and Messiah.”

The kings together do it. This is a prophecy of the battle of Armageddon in its final form though it had some preliminary fulfillments. And needless to say this tragic and misguided effort on the part of the armies of the world to resist the savior and maker of all things ends in catastrophic failure.

And so we read in verse 20. “Then the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who worked signs in His presence by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped His image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And the birds were filled with their flesh.”

Or as the psalmist would say, “He who sits in the heaven shall laugh. The Lord shall have them in derision. Yet have I set My king on My holy hill of Zion.” And so in this final futile ridiculous effort by the creature to cast away the bonds and servitude of his creator the creature is crushed and God’s king is established on earth. And He will reign forever and ever.

Now if that has not produced some questions I shall be severely disappointed. Let me receive your questions.

Yes, Pat, our gracious host this afternoon. King of the North.

Yes, there is one element that I did not mention which was included within the readings. And that is apparently when He is at about the time He ascends to power He receives some kind of a mortal wound. Because the book of Revelation tells us that the beast was worshiped who had the wound and lived. And the deadly wound and lived.

Revelation 17 exposes the enormously surprising fact that a spirit of a departed Roman emperor will be allowed to return and will be part of this scenario.

What I think we ought to say then is that at this point when the king of the north camps outside of Jerusalem something happens here. Whether He is attacked by the western forces or whether He is attacked by a Jew or a Muslim. Remember He is on this perspective He is a Muslim apostate. Fanatics would want to get at Him in any way.

And in some way or other He seems to suffer a very severe wound, a mortal wound in the sense that He is not expected to live. However Satan is allowed to perform one of His greatest and most stupendous miracles here. At this point the spirit of a fallen Roman emperor, dead Roman emperor, is released from His prison in hell and is allowed to inhabit the body of the king of the north.

Now I do not think that this necessarily means of course the obliteration of the persona of the king of the north. This is similar to a demon possession type of thing. I have no idea what the mechanics are but the devil is very well aware of the mechanics of this.

We even have cases in the New Testament of demons who had coalesced within a single human body to form a single persona. So that the maniac of Gadara had two thousand demons inside of Him who had become a single persona within this person.

So what I think happens here is that the persona of the Arab king of the north, the ascetic mystic, is combined with the persona of the released Roman emperor spirit to produce a highly charismatic figure.

Now I am guessing here of course. But my guess is that this type of thing will be passed off as the discovery by this person of His past life, a form of reincarnation. Let us put it this way. He is mortally wounded but when He recovers miraculously He has a new consciousness. He realizes now for the first time that He was once the emperor of Rome. And He is able to recall all sorts of details about Rome which only an ancient Roman emperor would recall.

Suddenly He becomes the ideal personage in whom a world government could center. Now the five fallen kings would be Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero. And I have no idea which one will inhabit the body of the king.

But my guess is since four of them have very bad reputations in history or have weak reputations in history and the only one of the five who has a very sterling reputation is Augustus the founder of the Roman Empire. So my guess is that the persona here will be the persona of Augustus.

And who better to refound the Roman Empire than the man who founded it in the first place? Suddenly the hidden consciousness is opened by this miracle and He realizes His continuity as a reincarnate person from the time of the early days of the empire.

He goes into the temple here. Maybe we have a nice dash of new age theology. Here is a man who has really realized the divinity that is within all of us. He is God. But if we will all follow His example we can be gods too. That sort of thing.

A lot of possibilities here. Many of the currents of thought that are prominent in our day and time would feed into a deception like this very naturally and very easily. So what we have here is a highly impressive figure.

The ten kings who are probably when they meet Him prime ministers or something decide here is the man to hitch their wagon to. And the book of Revelation says they receive power as kings one hour with the beast. They reconstitute the empire and the king promotes them from whatever rank they had in their own country to the rank of kings. And they give their power and their authority to Him and the man of sin’s empire is inaugurated.

You are talking about Revelation 17 I would presume. The Babylon which is destroyed in Revelation 17.

Okay. My understanding of Revelation 17 is this. That Revelation 17 uses the term Babylon as a code name for Rome. There are several reasons for thinking this.

First of all notice in Revelation 17:9. “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.” And then look at verse 18. “And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

Two things here. The woman is a city sitting on seven mountains. Rome was famous because it was built on seven hills. Babylon, literal Babylon, is built on flat land.

Secondly the woman which you saw is that great city which not has reigned but reigns over the kings of the earth. The suggestion seems to be the currently reigning city which would be Rome.

So my conclusion is that this is not a prophecy about literal Babylon although I believe in the reconstitution of literal Babylon on other grounds. But that this prophecy is a prophecy really about Rome which is mystery Babylon.

Spiritually Rome is everything that Babylon ever was, maybe even more. And her history of idolatry is as great and desperate as the history of the city of Babylon.

Now what we are told here however is that the ten horns, the ten kings hate this city. And the beast apparently there is no indication of a role by the beast here. But the ten horns hate the city and destroy it.

Then chapter 18 reports the destruction of a city. I have always felt that the description of the destruction in 18 sounds awfully like a nuclear destruction. Because everybody wants to stay a long way away. And in one hour all this wealth was destroyed.

This is a quick wipeout and the after effects are so severe that nobody dares to get up close. So I would conclude that for reasons we do not know the ten kings nuke Rome. I do not know the reason for it.

If as we have suggested the man of sin is still encamped in His tent. By the way on Thursday night in Costa Mesa someone made a very good suggestion which I am going to give serious thought to. That the Arab in question here is a Palestinian, might be a Palestinian.

And therefore He camps here in the land of Israel because like most Palestinians it is their land. And He rules from a tent because He is a Bedouin. And He is not interested in cities. And He does not care about Rome. If the ten kings want to nuke it fine. Go for it. Maybe that is the way it will be.

So I think myself that this is a prophecy about the destruction of Rome during the days of the beast. Go ahead.

But there definitely was an impressive city. That is where Nebuchadnezzar ruled.

Yes. But as a matter of fact Saddam Hussein Himself has reconstituted it to some extent. And many Bible students and I would have to number myself among them feel that the prophecies concerning its utter and final destruction require it to be rebuilt and destroyed again with the definitive finality suggested by the Old Testament prophets.

Could take place during the first three and a half weeks but that does not seem real likely if they are devastating periods of judgment. Might take place if there is an interim between the rapture and the seventieth week of Daniel.

If as I think probable the man of sin’s reforms economically and religiously are initially very successful then it may well be that the full reconstitution of the city will be during the first part of the last three and a half years. And then this city will fall like all the other cities of the nations according to one of the judgments recorded in Revelation.

I believe that there is room for a reconstitution of Babylon. But I do not see that ancient Babylon plays a highly visible role in the prophecies of the seventieth week. I think it is there and I think that God’s judgment will be poured out on it. But I do not think it plays a role and I do not think it plays any role with as far as I can see.

You understand the nature of prophecy is that we get the general parameters of it. Even if we get the general parameters essentially right the precise details of the fulfillment may be quite surprising. And therefore it is with a note of caution that I say these are my best judgments within the parameters that I see set down by prophecy.

There is really nothing that would absolutely exclude this Arab from making Babylon His new capital. If the ten kings wipe out Rome and if this man happens to want a splendid city as His capital Babylon is. And if He is from that area that is a possibility.

There is nothing that I can see right now in the prophecies to suggest that. But it is not excluded either by anything that I am able to point to as an independent player unless one identified Russia with Gog and Magog.

Now that identification has been frequently criticized. And I do not claim to be a specialist in this area. So I cannot tell you what I think except to say that the identification has been called into question.

However in Ezekiel 38 and 39 there only the Ezekiel passages and Revelation chapter 20 that mention Gog and Magog. It appears to me that in Ezekiel 38 and 39 we have two oracles. One is Ezekiel 38, the other is Ezekiel 39.

I would say that the oracle given in 38 is fulfilled in Revelation 20. In fact it makes sense that Revelation refers to something in the Old Testament. So I would assign Ezekiel 38 to the end of the millennium.

However chapter 39 is a different thing. And there we have a description of the fowls of heaven being invited to feast upon the carcasses of the soldiers and particularly their leaders and captains. And the book of Revelation picks up that imagery in connection with the battle of Armageddon.

So I would say that Gog and Magog, whoever they may be, also participate in the battle of Armageddon and share in the destruction of the armies at that battle which will extend to all of the nations that contribute troops.

And I do not see any place for a separate role by Russia. That might have seemed bold to say three years ago. It does not seem that strange now. Russia may very well be on the verge of collapse.

The possibility that Russia will break up into what they are now calling it will break up into a series of discrete countries is very strong. The economic plight of Russia is enormously bad. It is very hard as she did not participate significantly in the war with Iraq. Very hard to perceive her as recovering the capacity to interfere here very soon.

So I think it is very likely that Russia will have no role independently in the end time except Russia will be one of the nations no doubt that will contribute troops at the battle of Armageddon as will the kings of the east. The river Euphrates is dried up so that the kings of the east might move more expeditiously to Armageddon and so on.

Yes sir. There. But let me speculate for a minute. Okay. I must say that I do not see any place in prophecy where the United States really is the object of the prophecy.

I know that efforts have been made to find the United States in prophecy. But I do not see any place where that can be clearly and decisively established. Which means to me that if and when the United States has a role in this that the role is something not specified by prophecy.

It is possible that by the time these events transpire and we of course we are now talking about when we see the man of sin arising we are talking about a period at least three and a half years prior to that that is devastating to the world.

Two things seem possible to me. I think we all understand that the United States of America probably has the largest Christian population in the world or one of the largest Christian populations in the world. When the rapture occurs every single born again Christian is going.

I think it is highly probable that what is called by the economist the infrastructure of America will be dealt with a very severe blow. Could our economy operate if all Christians disappeared tomorrow? Maybe so but it would be a disaster. Am I right?

Okay. And we already know that our economy is skirting along the edge of the abyss anyway. And that probably the chickens are coming home to roost sooner or later. I could easily foresee the collapse of the United States economically as a byproduct of the rapture. And that the United States is impotent at that point.

Now the Western European nations which are merging as you know in 1992 into a common European market will be where the action is economically. And they will be key players on the end time stage.

Do I think the rapture is near? Yes, but I do not know. I certainly do. I do really think that we are seeing so many things taking shape. And one of the things that we have observed in the last few years.

For instance the collapse of the Eastern European Empire of Soviet Russia has made the possibility of a flood of immigrants from Eastern Europe to Israel. Oh not to mention the flood of Soviet immigrants that are coming in. There was an article in Time magazine about a year ago describing the enormous pressures on Israel’s economy of the Soviet immigrants. They airlifted sixteen thousand Ethiopian Jews.

See what is going to happen here is that all the Christians are going to be gone here at this point. And God will start over as far as His testimony is concerned. Where will He start? Where He started the first time in Israel. And His preachers will be the two witnesses.

First of all they will get the gospel straight I might add. The church does not always do it. Had to get that in. They will get the gospel straight. But what I am noticing here is that the nation of Israel is going to be crowded with Jews.

And I suspect that the harvest of Jews in the first three and a half years will be very big. In fact in Revelation 12 the remnant is treated as if it was the nation. So the woman runs into the desert where she has a place prepared for her for a time and times and half a time. And the one hundred and forty-four thousand are apparently the preachers.

If I am putting the items together correctly if the one hundred and forty-four thousand are preachers the number of saved people by the middle of the tribulation period may be upwards of five hundred thousand or more.

It is speculated that the influx of Soviet Jews will raise the population of Israel by about a million. And here is a nation that will be extremely fertile ground for the truth of God once again as they were originally.

So yeah I think all of the indications are that God is preparing the stage for the final drama. And if that is the case we may not be around very long.

Jack go Pat. I will get to you in a minute Jack since it is kind of a follow-up question. You start with the two witnesses you know we start the minute after the rapture not one Christian anywhere. So I presume the two witnesses are converted supernaturally very much like Paul was.

They preach and there is an enormous revival in Israel. Then there are Jewish evangelists, one hundred and forty-four thousand who begin to go worldwide. And there is an enormous reaping of souls throughout the world.

As we learn from Revelation 7 a great multitude who have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb and have come out of the great tribulation. So this will be a time of renewed preaching of the gospel and worldwide evangelism and martyrdom. Exactly.

And the beast will be working against this. It will be exceedingly difficult. I was at a Young Life meeting years ago and a little Chinese girl told me, “Have you ever noticed how the gospel seems to have moved from west to east, Palestine, Europe, America.” She said, “I think the next great revival is going to be in the Far East.”

And it seems to me that it is not unlikely that the beast will have His hardest job registering people in His new system in the third world. The industrial democracies will be easily and quickly registered. And of course if anyone takes this mark he is not going to get saved.

So I think it is very likely that the evangelists will find a great deal of fruit in places like China, India, Indonesia and elsewhere in the third world.

Jack I do not know. And there are a number of options here. One is frankly that the rapture will be as open as some people have suggested it would be. And that the world will see all these people going up.

Yeah. What we notice is that the two witnesses go up that way when they are raised to life again. They ascend up into a cloud and their enemies beheld them.

Now understand what I think when we put everything together Jack it seems to me that we reached the conclusion that by the end of the seven-year period the man of sin is certainly not denying the existence of Jehovah nor denying the existence of Jesus Christ as many unbelievers do today.

What I think He is doing is acknowledging the existence of these powers. The new age believes very much in multiple powers dark powers and light powers and all the rest of this. And so I think there will be a new world explanation of the Christian religion. That there is a spirit being named Jehovah. That He did give a book that has prophecies of His intentions in it. That there was a miracle working person named Jesus. He was impostor but He did work miracles. He was an alien maybe who could do it.

And now the Jesus under the direction of Jehovah is preparing for an invasion. Now it may be that this form of explanation will get its first impact and impetus from a visible rapture of some kind. So that is a possibility.

There is another possibility. Another possibility is that the rapture will be covered by some catastrophe that masks the departure of the Christians. Because when they shall say peace and safety sudden destruction comes upon them. Makes me feel that the rapture is going to be accompanied by some worldwide cataclysm.

One possible scenario here and this would also answer a question that was asked earlier. A nuclear exchange between Russia and the United States. Even though Russia is collapsing they still have a huge amount of nuclear weapons and so do we.

Okay. A nuclear exchange would certainly cover the disappearance of Christians in America. Because millions of people would be dead. The disorder would be enormous. And everybody would be focused on the nuclear exchange and whatever else happened might be related as isolated incidents which people never investigate.

So I think it could happen that way. And then that would also knock the United States out of any kind of a role and Russia out of any kind of a role in the end time here. And return the center of gravity.

See what I think we see in the prophetic scriptures is the west, the Roman Empire, the area in the west, the Middle East, the Far East. But beyond that we do not see much. And it may be that what we now regard as the primate powers by the time all of this is working to its denouement they may be incapable of playing a significant role in world affairs.

Yes Mary mean by the three and a half years of peace. But the scenario that I have outlined up here would make the first three and a half years a very devastating period of time. However your question is well taken Mary. And I think it is not inconceivable that a religious element will play in this even though the mourning of the world is over the loss of the economy of this city.

But we know that Rome is the center of the Roman Catholic Church. All right. When the Lord takes the Christian church out and I am assuming He is going to take some Roman Catholics with Him who have really believed in Him. But I suspect that the majority of the hierarchical structure will be left behind.

So now when the man of sin in the middle of the week wishes to set up a new religion and to wipe the slate clean the Catholics will not take nicely to that unless they are so cowed as to be silent. And they will probably work against it.

One of the interesting things is that the Catholics do join us in a number of things about which evangelicals are concerned. Abortion for example. Am I right? And if left behind they are not going to be happy with the denial of Christianity which will be coming from the man of sin and the false prophet.

The kings therefore may decide that for the ultimate progress of the new system Rome and its religious hierarchy should be blotted out. There may be other reasons economic as well. But I could see a religious factor playing into that equation.

Yes. Yes. That is right. That is right. And the Catholic Church has taken highly moral stands in a lot of cases. So I mean this will be a tragic time for them not to mention for others.

Yes sir. Ask me this question. And let me try to just say this without getting into water I have already gotten into very deep water here tonight.

I do not think that there is any evidence that Christians go back to heaven at the time of the rapture. I think we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherever the Lord is that is where we will be.

There is some reason for thinking and I am going to try to explain it in the book that we have written that the Lord remains behind the clouds in the sky for the seven-year period. And in fact the beast blasphemes those who pitch their tent in the sky. I am re-translating who tabernacle in heaven.

And there are quite a number of reasons for thinking that there may be that behind the cloudy phenomenon will be the Lord and His church. In which case we will certainly be watching from that vantage point.

I am inclined to think that the army is largely angelic. A bridegroom does not normally expect His bride to engage in warfare. It has not been a part of the church’s experience or not properly a part of the church’s experience. I am talking about religious wars, that sort of thing.

So I think this conflict will be carried out by Christ at the head of the hosts, the angelic hosts. But I think we will be right there viewing it. And when He comes to put His feet down on the Mount of Olives we will be right there to join Him on earth.

It is noteworthy that the two witnesses do not go up into heaven. They go up into the cloud. Very strange in the text there. There is an article with the word cloud that is a little unusual. It says they were caught up into not a cloud but the cloud.

Now this idea by the way is not original with me. It was suggested a long time ago by J. F. Strombeck who was a member of the board of regents of Dallas Theological Seminary. He argued that this is where the church will be in the clouds with the Lord. And that the two witnesses will be caught up into the presence of the Lord and the rest of the Christians when they are resurrected. And that suddenly the clouds will roll back revealing this great host of heavenly beings.

But when you really look at it closely there is not much conclusive evidence to suggest that we will go back to heaven. The post-tribulationists are fond of saying we have two second comings. We have beginning of the tribulation back to heaven, end of the tribulation and to earth. But that is not true on this view.

We have a second coming. The second coming He is already here but He is in the clouds. And the final phase of it is down here. I think that fits the scriptures better than the other option but that is only a suggestion.

The world as an indwelling person within the bodies of believing people. In other words in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit was with God’s people but not in them. Since Pentecost He has indwelt us as a permanent resident and has formed us collectively into the body of Christ.

And I think that kind of presence ends with the rapture. But I think the Holy Spirit works with the saints of the tribulation period in the same way as He did with the saints of Old Testament times.